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Search ON A NOTE OF MR ENRIQUE EDUARDO ESPINA RAWSON

Montevideo, December 11, 2007. -
Day Birth JULIO DE CARO. -

another time I said I only answer serious things, not their own claims of "hooligans" of football, those who would find intolerable truths. -

is a pity that Mr. Espina ignore "the literary merits of Sr.PG." I referred to Dr. Eduardo Paysée González, Ph.D. in Law and Social Sciences as a certificate issued by the University of the Republic, and Honorary Member of the Legion of Honor from Mexico, an Honorary Fellow of the Academy of Tango in Uruguay and the shield Joventango, which these days has been awarded the "Carlos Gardel". Author between others in the book "Open Pages" of 570 pages, written in exile, as complete on Gardel. And while this does not interest the case, one of the founders of the Frente Amplio currently governing the country. Not a "Sir", but certainly a "Doctor", a notable researcher and writer, about to turn 80 years old, still in active practice of his profession, what I think is the dean of all lawyers, among whom I encounter. -

I do not "command" any institution as Mr. Thorn says, because "command" according to the dictionary of the language, is "send a army, a plaza, a detachment, a fleet, etc. " .- but only chair the Board of the Academy of Tango of the Republic of Uruguay, which like every democratic institution, is governed by its statutes, which arises who exercises the "management and administration of the association" is the Steering Committee, of which I am a member like everyone else. And where all things are determined by majority vote, subject of course to the powers of the General Assembly .-
I do not think that the differences between various arguments about the birth of Gardel is a "combat" this is "fight, battle people or animals. " Among civilized people are sharing ideas, opinions, right or wrong, freely expressed. -

However, as I write this letter on 11th December, I can not remember that in Argentina today, marks the "Day of the Tango", instituted at the behest of Mr. Ben Molar, first to Buenos Aires and then for all of Argentina. - Ben Molar
And chose that date, by noting that the same, incidentally, agrees as he said, with the birth of Carlos Gardel and Julio de Caro. Director, composer, arranger, and violinist Argentine, born December 22, 1899 and died March 11, 1980, which occupies an out-standing place in the history of Tango. Marking a time and a unique style and innovative. -

And it is the latter and his view of Gardel's birth, to which I refer. In fact, on page 426 of book pages open, "Dr. Paysée González, Julio De Caro, said " Carlos Gardel is Uruguay, and his real birth is surrounded by a mystery, but like many surrendered referred to the mystery cult " . (Capitalization in original). - Transcribe
then quote from the Dr. Pedro Baldasarre, in a letter received which in summary says: "we know from our parents that Gardel is Uruguayo" and what proud "to do someday, the world knows that Gardel is Uruguayan and not French, and this by being twinned in all our countries. Brothers in blood and everything. " -
And then, as final, for his part said: "and epilogue added that I also think that Carlos Gardel is URUGUAYO" (also capitalized in the original, but emphasis mine). -

"Reading this letter will produce Mr. Espina Rawson " a wholesome leisure time and good humor "? , "" An irresistible humorous effect? . Does Julio De Caro between "unbiased people who have dedicated their lives to denigrate Gardel and his mother, without art or grace? This
says Mr. Espina Rawson, referring to Dr. Eduardo Paysée González, and some others who think like him, not only Uruguay, but also increasingly Argentines and other nationalities .-
Have not noticed anything Mr. Espina are also allusions to the eminent JULIO DE CARO? That, to know them, you will be spinning in his grave, losing the peace, well-earned in his life. -

As for the lack of response to a note from Mr. Espina Rawson, not the answer, nor acknowledge receipt, because we do not waste time on things that are not serious , and because the letter was a kind of "interrogation " police type, for which Mr. Espina not believe to be enabled. -

In conclusion, I reaffirm itself that Mr. Espina Rawson has not shown interest in applying for DNA testing, the remains of Gardel and potential parents. Surely not having any confidence in the results. It is he who should encourage Argentina to justice those reviews, which are not opposed, but rather we have to adhere to them, provided they are conducted with full guarantees for both thesis on the birth of the Magician. That the application is not biased, and instead of seeking a rejection, base on the usefulness of performing DNA analysis. -

Mr Thorn: can not tell the Justice that everything is resolved, and then make a request to resolve .- And that's what he did in his application the CEG Chair you. -

Make a new application correctly and have our support. I asked from the other side, and from this we told them we agreed. But then he forgot the issue. There must be some. -
The writer as early as 2003, spoke favorably to the scientific study and has not changed his mind .- Dr.

NELSON SICA DELL 'ISOLA

------------------ -------------------------------------------------- ------

Then the letter published by the Center for Gardelians signed by Mr. Enrique Espina Rawson, http://www.quienesgardel.com.ar/version.html see DEBATE, prompting the response from Dr. Nelson Sica:

ESPINA RAWSON HENRY RESPONSE TO DR. SICA NELSON
Buenos
Aires, December 8, 2007

What a surprise! Here Mr Sica, who was supposed missing in action, or as part of this virtual reality in which the Gardela Tacuarembó wave.

over a year ago sent a note to the Academy named Tango who commands, raising some questions such as whether there was any evidence of Dona Berta's stay in Uruguay, or had knowledge of a check or official launch the country of Ms. Gardes, or in short, anything like it. Creditors were not a response, or even a mere acknowledgment. But hey, appeared and that is important. And it has done to give us a bit of healthy recreation and good humor. Gives us a kind of social note, glossing the important meeting held no less than in the actual desktop Mr. Paysée Gonzalez, who personally received.

continually reread the note from Mr. Sica. It recreates the atmosphere enviable. Almost see the office of Paysée, and I imagine almost like Mr. Bonavena, Ezpeleta, Buenos Aires, so admired by Borges. The shadowy atmosphere, severe shelves, the magnifying glass next to the bronze Quijote onyx base and agenda of plastic worn faux leather, perfumed by a not unpleasant smell sour mix snuff smoke weed matt black and digestive, without missing the graceful presence of women, represented in this solemn occasion by Ms. Iniguez meritorious.

Is it conceivable that something more fun notable summit seriously deciding to "accept the jurisdiction of Argentina" to the hypothetical DNA Gardel and his mother. What else could have jurisdiction, and who believe they are to accept or not what determines justice in Argentina? The mere enunciation, coupled with the solemn and pompous tone of the note, producing a humorous effect irresistible.

What about the theory of veterinarian Dr. Bieler which holds that the body Gardel was changed? "Changed? Who and for someone to do that in the year 36? And if they did, why should these involuntary alarm comedians? By contrast, the DNA could never match the stranger Dona Berta, which ultimately could use a natural fit to their "theories."

And the extraordinary passage in which he allegedly did not support the request for DNA comparison of Gardel and his mother made by the CEG for lack of an express ratification. Only these characters can assume, or pretend, that a full invitation in Congress, filmed and recorded, heard by all attendees and repeated many times in talks and emails need to be certified by a clerk, or one who knows who.

undoubtedly had little desire to be done any analysis, or to accompany any management.

To top it off, this gentleman P. González argues that the letter to request CG DNA was poorly done on purpose, to achieve justice and denied the request.

Well, maybe ... but more so, as I now have an extraordinary opportunity: what prevents them from these champions of truth and morality to make a new order, this time done right? Ask from justice Uruguay, if they feel better, but do something for once. A thousand years ago who are crowing about these things, criticizing what others do, but otherwise do not produce self-congratulatory events of any kind. It is a pity, because certainly when you know you have evidence, coupled with conceptual clarity and style that characterizes them, justice can not fail to comply with the request.

Already, and without being a prophet, I anticipate that they will not do anything.

I do not know of any literary merit of Mr. PG, and not the subject of my business.

I have before me a photograph of August 17 1935 taken at the port of Montevideo. It is a committee of Uruguayan women delivering a plaque in honor of Dona Berta Gardes, and this image shows an indescribable emotion. This sentiment, of course, absolutely oblivious to the unprejudiced, who have dedicated their lives to denigrate Gardel and his mother, without art or grace. I can only wonder what these ladies would feel if they had come to suspect that this same Marie-Berthe Gardes, the Dona Berta so beloved by all who knew and adored by his son Carlos Gardel, whom they honored with tears in his eyes, would receive, years later, the insults of a group of his countrymen, led PG by this gentleman, whom today we pay tribute their fellow travelers.

Enrique Espina Rawson

President of the Center for

Gardelians

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PAYSÉE GONZÁLEZ - A life for

Letter by Dr Nelson Sica Dell 'Isola, President of the Academia del Tango del Uruguay:

PAYSÉE EDUARDO GONZÁLEZ - A life for the truth

University professional, Doctor in Law and Social Sciences, Aug. 20 turns 80 years old and we know that being prepared and very fair and various acts of recognition of his work, by Public and Private Institutions. Even some have already done, Award as Carlos Gardel in Tacuarembo. And another much earlier, as the placement of your photo and references to his person, in the Carlos Gardel Museum in Eden Valley. -

addition to actively exercise their profession independently, and even a stint as Public Defender, was dedicated at a very young to the political activism and journalism. But the research, and it is this last aspect we want to emphasize today. -

His book "Open Pages" since its first edition in 1990, made significant distinctions of the Ministry of Education and Culture, the Municipality of Montevideo and Tacuarembó, and the Uruguayan Chamber of the Book. But the acceptance of all lovers of our most typical things, particularly the city folk, not only Gardelians but also all those interested in the truth about the birth of our greatest singer. -

In the first edition, by "Ediciones Prometeo", followed by a second "Oriental Editorial Editorial" in 1990 , and most recently, a further extension of the above, of "Plaza Publishing "in December 2004 . -
is a 570-page volume, with four parts divided into 25 chapters, a documentary appendix that includes 181 photographs, whose origins are listed on page 533, a review that began in 1840, who married the parents of Colonel Carlos Plaster, John Plaster Bonifacia Carayemas and Medina to the first edition of the book, continuing Nelson Bayardo Arch with its tenacious campaign to publicize the real biography of the "Magician", a full family tree included on page 524, with more than one hundred names.

The literature in three chapters, including 73 books, many essays and articles and 31 media, and another 32 since 1990. - It is in our view, as complete with an unquestionable legal approach that has been written about Gardel. -

As the author says in the Preface to the First Edition, this is "Search and scroll to Gardel man, from its origin ... avoiding frivolous and irresponsible ... basing their work on documents, testimony or evidence to plausibility compelling and enduring. " Recalling the fundamental contribution of Erasmo Silva Cabrera (AVLIS) that "heavy tiles removed and opened closed doors." In a very righteous remember the pioneer of this research. Arq not forgetting Nelson Bayardo died August 28, 2002, to whose memory the book is devoted commented. Calling it "intelligent tireless fighter for the truth" , saying "still with us and each of our pages, which are also part of their great work." -

He called his book this way because they are open to "enlightening and fruitful debate," and that hand "does not harbor the vain presumption to clear all the unknowns"

.- The Second Edition, explores the themes and even more in the third, correcting and recreating getting better, with greater accuracy and authenticity, for until the last year, collected new views and the literature grew exponentially .-

pages are still open in his view, the 'ongoing quest for the elusive truth ... traveling without passions, honest, intelligent and unprejudiced ways of thinking and analysis ". On issues where contradictions, gaps and silences are great. Overcoming bigotry, to approach the man of flesh and blood human being who was living the myth. Breaking plane with vested interests and modestly out of time to get to the very origins, that is, sources first of whom was Carlos Gardel, seeking truth, not without misery and mud, which for many years wanted to hush up. -
In this struggle for truth, he chaired a meeting at his desk in 2006, which was attended by Dr. Carlos Arezo Foundation Carlos Gardel, the Esc Freddy González Araujo Julio Sosa Foundation, the researcher Argentina Martina Iñiguez, and the author of this note by the Academy of Tango RO del Uruguay .-
It was considered a proposal coming from the capital of Argentina, so that, from this side, we are acceding to a request to raise the Judiciary of Buenos Aires, to be carried out DNA testing on the remains of Carlos Gardel and their presumed ancestors, to scientifically determine its origin. As the Gardelians Studies Center, had made a request to that effect to the Justice Argentina, Acción de Amparo, which was rejected on March 18, 2004, by Judge H. intervening Dr. Fabiana Schafrik (trasnscripta at p. 376. Dr.Paysée's book). And the plaintiff consented to the decision not to appeal against it, despite the mistake of giving the force of res judicata, to probate, no disputes, which do not have this range. Then sought to give more strength to a new application and calling it our support. -

The writer had already ruled favorably to a DNA test, in a note published in the Journal of the Association of Partners to the Pension Fund of the University Professionals in June 2003 , and weekly "News and Sports" Sydney on May 29, 2003 , stating in summary that: first you have to be confident that remains in "La Chacarita" belong to "Wizard" doubtful thing as claimed by the Argentine speaker Dr. Juan Carlos Bieler, and if the analysis concludes by comparing these traces with plaster and Family with Bertha Gardes.-Thinking the time or the burnt of the remains, preventing the study. But that consideration should be surrounded by sufficient guarantees to argue a theory or another. Must done by a team of specialists representing the two opposing view, the only way we all abide by the outcome .-
all agreed to support this application, sign the appropriate letter, constitute part of the record, receive notifications and monitor its progress, controlling all procedural steps, particularly the extraction of samples, the appointment of experts and the possibility of relying on cars. A fact which even made inquiries with the Professor of Forensic Medicine, Rovira Guido Berro, and appoint a lawyer in Buenos Aires to monitor the progress of the file to open. -
We answer in the end, we agreed to adhere, accepting the jurisdiction of Argentina, it is where the remains of Gardel and Berta Gardes, because what interests us is to determine the truth. As long as the procedures were with full guarantees for those who hold the two positions on the birth of the star, which should be equal in all transactions. But unfortunately those who had asked for our support, never started the new application, or had new information about the purpose of doing so. Although in his petition Research Center Gardelians said "has been inaction or omission by public bodies" (ie the Executive Branch and the Government of the City of Buenos Aires against those who raised the action amparo) .-

The Dr.Paysée Gonzalez is an Honorary Fellow of the Academy of Tango of the Republic of Uruguay, appointed unanimously by the General Assembly, for fighting for truth, and so we see in the photo accompanying this note, to receive this distinction from the University of Montevideo in October 2003. -
Between 1980 and 1990 he lived in Mexico City, as a political exile, stay in which he wrote the first edition of his work, and received the distinction of "Honorary Member of the Legion of Honor" for his humanitarian work at the time of earthquakes in Mexico in September 1985. -
Our country has been editor of the weekly "Citizenship" (1954-56), correspondent of the newspaper missions abroad "The Public Good" (1955-59), political editor of the weekly "The Citizen" (1958-60), founder and director of the magazine "Politics" (1960-61), parliamentary reporter and editorial writer for the Journal "Epoca" (1962-64), correspondent in Montevideo (1963-64) and Director (1965-1967) of international news agency "Inter Press Service," political columnist and regular contributor of the weekly "March" (1959-1968), Director of the newspaper "Extra" (1968-69), Founder and Director of Journal "In Front" (1969-70), and a regular contributor to the magazines "Reporter", "Vespers," "Christianity and Society." -
addition of "Pages open", as mentioned, has published "Police and Justice", "The Reform of the Penal Code" (1955), "Editorial Extra", "A Struggle for Press Freedom" (1968) . And sharing with others "dilemma of the Christian Democracy" (1964), "New Church new politics", "The Catholic Church in Latin America" \u200b\u200b(1968) and "Christian Democracy", "Analysis Critical "and" confessional, ideology and revolution "(1968). - Dr. Nelson

SICA Dell'Isola

------------------------------------- ---------------

Includes "The Judgement ARGENTINA", published in the latest edition of the book "Open Pages" page. 376 - 377 - 378 of Dr. Payssé González.

Reading the text one wonders if the CEG to make the application really wanted DNA was performed or if only was a diversionary ploy designed to achieve a Pyrrhic victory, as the concept expressed by Mr. Espina Rawson to know the judge's ruling Schafrik.

It can be seen the presentation is absolutely biased, disqualifying and intended to convince the judge of the usefulness of DNA testing. Suffice

reproduce a few paragraphs to demonstrate how the presentation was made:

. .. "It highlights that powerful economic interests linked to tango, have led " nonsensical "claims about the nationality and affiliation of Carlos Gardel ."
... "Then tells about the existence of unfounded versions that insist that Berta Gardes was not the artist's mother, putting into question their genetic origin."
... "On the other hand stressed that in both trials inheritance, which was processed in our country and which was processed in the city of Montevideo (ROU) the matter is concluded and the paternity of Carlos Gardel is irrefutable and undeniable. Later
refers to what he calls the Middle Eastern version of "the two Gardel" and Uruguayan authors have also refuted. "

After all these considerations, the following sentence sounds like a hair taken:
"Finally requested the exhumation and subsequent DNA analysis to determine the genetic identity of the singer." What

judge may consider necessary, after reading these arguments, a DNA test? Naturally

Schafrick Judge ruled that because:
... the letter that comes home version called "two Gardel," which have arisen in ROU, has been challenged not only in Argentina, but also by authors of this brother country . Does
omission of the authority then in the defense of cultural and historical heritage? Perhaps should echo versions when the question was allegedly attacked and resolved in court? I understand that the answer is negative.
III. Moreover, it is known that in order to decide an issue in court - except in rare cases such as Article 113 paragraph 2 of the Constitution of the city - and the judges must address a dispute , cause or court case .

is clear that the judge did not receive any information on the controversy.

Martina Iñiguez

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truth Charter Juan Carlos Moyano the alleged "VEPRESS Agency, diffusing through the mails of the page" Los Amigos de Gardel "

Mr. Juan Carlos Moyano received an e-mail of the alleged "VEPRESS Agency, before usurping the name" NOTI "TANGO" (which however retains the mail), which answers here, having also sent its response to those responsible for the note:

From: Juan Carlos Moyano
Posted: Sunday, December 2, 2007 7:48:32 am
To: agencianoti_tango
@ yahoo.com CC: martinalunfardo@hotmail.com ; gardeloriental@gmail.com; webmaster@gardelweb.com; enesraw@hotmail.com; quienesgardel@gmail.com; Dear cachoperry@yahoo.com

Friends:
Often complimented by smart work they do and do it again today. The French name for difrazar a ° ° notified tango ° ° is a joke all the French and history that support and that at this point no one believes them.
The racket they made with Dr. Perrotta was great but I do not think "º · Agencies news · Do not know which titles have a collaborator and say who made the correction form ° ° ° °, ° ° is exceeded ° ° and read all the excesses, but when I corrected did not say anything and no one had found out that · Exceeds ° ° °, also published the e-mail Dr. Perrotta which clarifies things, then planted a big confusion, my daughter told me I search on google and saw that Dr. Carlos Perrotta not listed, then it was sung that was a lie most of the French titles and things are invented to appear more important. VEPRESS
handles very well leave them as liars and arrogant and always show the contradictions they say.
Dr. Perrotta says ¨ · We thank Juan Carlos, as always your support on DNA ° ° seem to ignore this letter http://www.gardelweb.com/carta-al-presidente-de-uruguay.htm or Mr. Stephen changes his mind as his shirt. "The French do not realize? Ms. Iniguez itself as the only places you bell the cat fabulera try from ° ° ° ° and insulted. Mr Espina
also tells Mr. Ostuni: ° ° I agree with you that there is no need to disrespect ° ° and have believed it if I had not seen discussions with Ms Martina Iñiguez where she puts on the ropes and he comes out with anything else pretending to be angry because they say that Borges met Gardel. They do very well
friends working well and publicizing the research of ° ° ° ° Gardel East if not for you to have fewer visits and showing that as the French do not know more to say and then distracted by going around the bush and search · · Games distrativos ° ° as are the ship's passengers. Berta Gardes
In 1882 he went to the United States but that proves nothing and no one cares that the French did when Uruguay was about to be born magician. I think that ° ° The Friends Gardel ° ° also have the same intentions as you or are not sure that Gardel is French because it would not go looking for evidence and not be always hanging around on the birth, for them there is nothing more than that and if they care so much is because they do not know or have fear that the truth be known. Friends Vepress
Thanks again and let that bad heart stopped those who deceived the world for many years. A hug

JuanCa

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CLARIFICATION LETTER OF DR. PERROT

On Sunday November 11, 2007, the website "Friends of Gardel" included in note Carlos Gardel, "DNA" and something else, a letter from Dr. Charles Perrotta, which respectfully expressing their differences view with Mr. Miraglia and Freddy Gonzalez.

next day, November 12, 2007, Dr. Perrotta wrote to the heads of the page, and who could have felt affected by the disqualification that it was made of the gentlemen mentioned in the explanatory letters highlighting " two fundamental errors "in the article published and asked for the corresponding correct them.

11 days having elapsed since Dr. Perrotta send the letter and seeing that those responsible for it did not publish a correction or apology, as usually, I accede to the request made by Dr. Perrotta in this publication.


Re: Carlos Gardel, "DNA" and more
From: CARLOS PERROTTA (cachoperry@yahoo.com)
Posted: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:37:43 pm
To: VEPRESS ( agencianoti_tango @ yahoo.com)

Sir,: I welcome the publication of my note, but I think exaggerated comments.
BUT THAT AN URGENT REQUEST TO PUBLISH THE FOLLOWING CLARIFICATION AND I should point out two fundamental errors in Note :

A) I've never been a judge, and

B) I'm not JURISTS OF NOTE. TENGOTRATADOS NO advertising or anything like it. I'm just a lawyer specializing in criminal law, which TRANSITS By others outside (CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL) AND FORTY-TWO YEARS OF CAREER AND SPENT MANY PAIR OF LOAFERS. Perhaps the confusion has been that there was a Judge conmi same surname (VICTOR PERROTTA that has nothing to do with me and we do deserve these titles.)

I think these explanations are only necesariaspara avoid confusion that can bring me more trouble than good. As the Clerk
FREDDY ARAUJO, whom I had the pleasure of meeting in Buenos Aires when the 2003 event, even if they share at all his arguments, I would never FABLES, so I want it to be interpreted Queno that I'm passing on so hard he term. Yes I'm

GARDELIANA to death, so much so that hardly call the BIG by name, love that I have yrespeto. As always thank you for your attention and ask them to understand my situation, which compels me to send a copy of this to other publications.
THE SALUTE TO RESPECT ALWAYS
CARLOS C. PERROTTA (two t). DNI
4372768CPACF T # 18 - F # 300. Public

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CARLOS Carlos Gardel - DNA - Weekly Search - Montevideo

readers' letters sent to readers of the weekly mail regarding Carlos Gardel Search and DNA, published from August 30, 2007

Agape Letter by Luis Palomeque, published in SEARCH Semanario the August 30, 2007

"Carlos Gardel

Sir

as apparently happens in cycles, has reignited the debate about the true geographical origin of the birth of Carlos Gardel having spoken in such a prestigious environment, supporters of the respective theses Uruguayan birth or French.

Personally I let myself be seduced by the argument that defends the "Eastern Gardel, after reading texts of the late Arch Bayardo and especially people my neighbor Dr. Paysée Gonzalez, but otherwise praised the efforts of Mr. Stephen, who was kind enough, in time, to refer valuable material respect.

That's why I passed by the House of Representatives was co-author - along with members of Tacuarembó of the time - the law that Parliament implicitly affiliated Tacuarembó nationality, while available on the date appropriate that the celebrations take place in the Gardel Tacuarembó.

But an attitude like I've taken there, one must admit, some conviction and some underlying feeling, a kind of love that underground the "wizard" we belong to a certain extent, a kind of shy and subjective "partisan" national.

Recognizing that I hastened to introduce two initiatives - one in the House of Representatives and another in the next legislative session, the Standing Committee - to be practiced at Gardel's remains and those of its assumptions Plaster-Oliva parents, matching procedures of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA).

In a subsequent legislature insisted on the point Deputy Arturo Heber and in the present, the congresswoman Beatriz Argimón. Both of them I recognized have attended my suggestion. But so far, everything has been unsuccessful.

I have in my possession the reply of a Minister of Public Health had no items to carry out such studies!. I never knew if behind this response is concealed a contempt for popular culture or some other mysterious reasons. Someday we will know.

I have also felt the bitter aftertaste and disheartening to note that no foreign minister - from the decade 1990-2000 - when I was deputy to the present, considered that the issue was sufficiently important to decide to start negotiations with the Chancellery of Argentina, in order to exhume the remains of Gardel in the cemetery of Chacarita and carry out the relevant technical reviews. What diabolical obstacle has operated on this? Those who have been raised by naive, non-receipt.

I know that at present, with Argentina the oven is not for buns. But, one wonders whether anything could be done in the previous period lard, before that our neighbors have forgotten the much-touted "brotherhood" who say that united us.

is expected, and I am still confident, though somewhat unrealistically, that someone decides to end a seeming endless discussion that is going to settle the question in the field of science, since today gives us the means to do so.

That would be easy to question the science and at the same time, leave the sterile debates, which are remembered as a teacher said something like "no bike to pedal!"

Agape Prof. Luis Palomeque "

--------------------------- ------

Letter by Juan Carlos Esteban, published on October 11, 2007

"Sir:

An invigorating fresh air comes from the other side, a figure that we rescued, for his honesty. We refer to the former MP, Professor Luis Palomeque Agape.

a note full of unusual and traditional openness of the Uruguayan soul, stripped him of his unsuccessful effort for a decade, to ensure that the authorities of neighboring countries, particularly the initiative to the Argentine Government of the study DNA on the remains of Carlos Gardel.

confesses in a letter to readers that publishes the weekly SEARCH, August 30th ultimo in this section, the disillusionment, bitter and disheartening, that for some mysterious reasons, in the steepest formal areas, nests and hides a deep contempt for popular culture. But the brave legislators have discovered, too, that the excuses are hiding and "diabolical operating constraints."

We, as Professor Palomeque, has long been experiencing the same feeling of sneak and shun any initiative to establish the truth. Silence accomplice of most national authorities of the sister country, with the complicity of obscure economic and political interests has been a constant for a decade.

At this point in the efforts we make we can not be misleading.

1. Have been laid bare, and no basis for a documentary fable East Gardel.

2. Argentina's Justice is well aware that his counterpart in Uruguay has been issued since 1937, categorically, on the French origin of the artist.

3. In 1935 the Uruguayan President Gabriel Terra withdrew claims for the repatriation of his remains, with the same certainty.

4. Any initiative of the official part, will surely be rejected by the Justice Argentina in knowledge - as it happened - the documents submitted to the Ministry of Justice in Uruguay and in the Archives of the Nation.

5. The Independent Community of the neighboring country, as in the upper echelons of government, knows the true story of French origin of Carlos Gardel.

On behalf of the Center for Gardelians believe exhausted and come to an end, any debate, that seeks to reinstate a controversy that has come to an end.

Juan Carlos Esteban

CI

2,406,755

Buenos Aires - Argentina "

------------------- --------------------

Letter by Martina Iñiguez, published on November 8, 2007.

"Mr Director:

I read with amazement the letter from the Argentine researcher, Mr. Juan Carlos Esteban on 11 October under the title" Carlos Gardel But my surprise is due to the fact that it is clap the administration by former Congressman Luis Palomeque Agape, as many researchers are Gardel, holders of Carlos Gardel orientality we want that effort comes to fruition, but it suggests that "The silence of the majority national authorities of the sister country, with the complicity of obscure economic and political interests " is responsible" to gloss and shun any initiative to clarify the truth. "

Mr. Stephen, as usual, said in an editorial of a website dedicated to Carlos Gardel: "In the circles oriental mood persists dilate surreptitious and unacknowledged, indefinitely, the veil surrounding the legend, " but forget everything that does not suit his theory, as we can see that the Reuters news agency published the following note on 13 January 2004:

"- The Chamber of Deputies of Uruguay recently approved a request that samples are taken from the remains of Gardel and his supposed mother, buried in Argentina, as well as assumptions Uruguayan parents who lie to 400 kilometers from Montevideo, for genetic studies. The initiative has not yet been answered by the governments of neither countries, but caused displeasure among lovers of the tango in Buenos Aires , where "The Magician" grew up and took his first steps in music, which ensure that Gardel was born in France and little traveled to Argentina with his mother. "The Uruguayans are trying to make a hypothesis put into question the information they are much more than documented," he told Reuters Jorge Minces, president of the Argentina Gardeliana .

"That request DNA testing not be performed. Let Gardel quiet after so many years is an obligation of all Argentines ," added Minces. "

is also noteworthy that Mr. Stephen says: "At this point in the efforts we make we can not be misleading" and give a list of 5 points that can only believe a lot of people very uninformed.

That Mr. Stephen and the Center for Gardelians have decided for themselves that the controversy over the origin of Carlos Gardel is complete and that "there are two versions" about his possible identity is simply not conforms to the truth.

Recent research carried out with the invaluable assistance of Mrs Mary Hortiguera, director of the Museum Pedagogical Montevideo, prove without doubt that the singer was at least part of their schooling in that city, made quite inconsistent with child's school career Berta Gardes French in Buenos Aires.

addicts have chosen the French position catalog of "fable" of the incident to their inability to merge it with the history of French child .

talk about plans for schools "allegedly" Uruguay in the late nineteenth century, so "arbitrarily forcing the concurrence of the singer to a hypothetical establishment of Montevideo", when all hypothetical, of course, what always "said" without any basis, is that the school photograph was taken singer Carlos Gardel in Buenos Aires.

therefore the fable is that only wants us to believe that child's school career French Berta Gardes documented between 1897 and 1904 in Buenos Aires accounted for the singer Carlos Gardel.

publicly challenge Mr. Juan Carlos Esteban to present evidence that he or the institutions that can provide support to override the obvious fact and irrefutable, that the school photo was taken at Gardel school No. 27, Southern district of Montevideo, or the evidence that was taken in some "alleged" and "hypothetical" school of Buenos Aires, similar to that of Montevideo, adding in that case, maps of the same, some photos taken in the same place and history to justify testimonial that mentions it.

IDENTIFICATION ASSERTING There is NO rule that the French boy whose school career was spent in Buenos Aires was the same person later called Carlos Gardel.

support the completion of DNA.

Martina Iñiguez DNI

4,246,386 "

-------------------------------------- -

Letter by journalist Juan Angel Miraglia, published on November 8, 2007.

editor:

Mr. Juan carlos Esteban is a fan of his fanaticism. Not only is serious, but it is alarming.
surely must feel protected by some mythical god of Olympus and its influence has been considered and believed the owner of absolute truth in the controversial issue of citizenship Carlos Gardel. Hence he, a recent letter published in "Search" has provided "urbi et orbi" that any discussion or any discrepancy is not valid, has no reason to exist and it is useless because from a far "beyond" the Olympic God protects him has conferred upon Studies Center Gardelians apparently it integrates, the supreme, the maximum and unfading authority to consider the issue sold out and any debate that seeks to install a controversy, you can not even try. I said, what has this firm and uncompromising Esteban. Spoke Zarathustra and basta!

In that letter invokes the Agape Palomeque former congressman who in our opinion - 'more beyond their disappointments or belief - should take the hint and put "the pears to room" to this opportunistic "historian" that allows many assumptions in addition to appearing as patronizing Uruguayan fan of chivalry.

After

also allowed to invoke the Terra President assigned the claim to have withdrawn the remains of the star, about which there is no document to support your bold assertion. Ignores changes in the Uruguayan Parliament to know the artist's death, voices rose deploring the tragedy, saying the orientalism of Gardel.

A countless arguments handled by the maximum and more serious historian on the origin and Gardel's life as it was Nelson Bayardo Arch and whose books must be submitted. we will add as documentary proof which could not be doubted because it contained the signature of the shady character who was Armando Define fundamental part of the script text by the Esc Carlos Busch Buero, when it acquired the site Gardel in Punta Gorda, in the city of Montevideo.

the respective file in the Supreme Court listed as mandatory, the protocol which consists of writing done by Charles Busch Buero Esc on October 30, 1933. At this writing - full text copying I attach the Editor of "Search" as conclusive proof - the concrete's acquisition of Carlos Gardel in three plots of land located in the Tenth Judicial Division (Punta Gorda) from Montevideo, with a total of 1,800 square meters.

Watch Mr. Stephen, authorizing the clerk of his own hand writing: "Before me, Charles Busch buero, authorizing clerk, appears Mr. Carlos Gardel, who expressed to be Uruguayan, of age, unmarried and domiciled in the street Jean Jaures number seven hundred thirty-five of the city of Buenos Aires and it accidentally. "

Then follows the description the well-negotiated at various aspects of it, as well as the contract price and the payment of the sum total of eight thousand three hundred and ten pesos. Add even Gardel "has taken possession of the property." The script concludes with the signatures of the seller, Carlos Gardel, the acting professional and witnesses Peter Bernat (1) and Armando Defino.

Put more attention Sr, Stephen: There is a second script by the same scribe Charles Busch Buero the same day, in which Carlos Gardel "expressing be Uruguayan, of age, unmarried and resides in Rue Jean Jaures number seven hundred thirty-five of the city of Buenos Aires and it accidentally. "

The first point the notary says" (Gardel) confers special powers to Mr. Ricardo Bonapelch so that in their representation contracts awarded construction of the building "which is then placed on the street Pablo Podesta and known by the Villa Gardel through the years. still other details that are irrelevant.

What does come to case, Mr Stephen, is the finding that a professional should always be responsible as a scribe, writes that Gardel "claims to be Uruguayan." And that witnesses in each case with their respective signature, Pedro and Armando Bernat defined in the two cases, certify several things including that Gardel was Uruguayan.

How about Mr. Esteban? When I define the Machiavellian Armando telling the truth? "Over time he discovered that Gardel was French? Apparently, something similar to what happened to you

Juan Angel Miraglia

CI 412011-5

Pinares - Maldonado "

Excerpt from article published June 30 1935 in the newspaper El Debate "de Montevideo.

.

words made by Deputy Miguén Buranelli homage to Gardel in the last session of the House.



--------------------------------


(1) Peter Bernat, who was not only a close friend of Gardel but his attorney in Montevideo, witness says and signs orientality Gardel in writing mentioned in obituary says the newspaper "La Mañana" de Montevideo, 25.6.1933, Gardel
"... was born in the 2 nd. Section Tacuarembó Judicial Department. Dies at age 52.

stay Sta Blanca, which states born singer is "accidentally" in the 2 nd. Section Judicial Department Tacuarembó.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Martina Iñiguez

thank Mr. Nelson Sica sending faxes.

Toilet Paper Roll Test Party

WHAT RARE, NO? Answer

The letter reproduced below was sent by Mr. Azzarini Scoseria the Weekly Search Montevideo and was published on 6 December 2007

To explain what the supporters of the thesis of French Gardel:

1) that their alleged biological mother had not processed the documentation for your child to come to Argentina. Or perhaps in 1893 and thought that the war of 14 her son could be declared a deserter in the event of not attending the call-up?

2) that Argentina has not been nationalized in 1908, before 18 years instead of looking who will get a identity card of Avellaneda. The naturalized Argentines did not have to go to war.

3) that are not available any identity document Gardel Argentinean French or processed before in 1920 he declared Tacuarembó Uruguayan-born.

4) What if you were born in 1890, all documents belonging to someone 3 years older.

5) That many of his friends declared that he confessed even more years than those stated in the document.

6) that has been declared dead his parents to arrange the document when Berta Gardes was alive.

7) that his "mother" the French have always called Charles or Charlie, but never Charles.

8) Do not know how to speak French and do not even understand what Berta told when challenging him in French.

9) That has never been mentioned to the much talked about Mama Rosa if they lived so long with her.

10) That the school registration documents do not contain information on place and date of birth.

11) That the picture of the children in your class does not appear to be any girl who makes sure went to a mixed school.

12) You can not explain how he Gardel to attend a school in Montevideo, where he took a famous photograph.

13) What if your school certificate in 1904 credited as a child ten points (including grammar) adult spelling was so poor.

14) That same year found him singing in political committees and nightlife along the likes Bettinotti and De Nava and herdsmen bars and butchers.

15) You have such an aversion to the military not to come to the aid of their country during the war.

16) that his "family" forgive him of "treason. to the nation "and the alteration of his nationality and his betrayal of his name.

17) That has never been pictured with his mother or his "birthplace" of Toulouse.

18) That neither has ever traveled with her on numerous shipments to Europe.

19) To test for this, when to be his son would not have been necessary.

20) Let your will contained no clause referring to those who wanted well as Anaiz and Fortunato or even many of his friends.

21) to sign his will with a "pseudonym."

22) That in any of the occasions when she was a notary (three) in the 18 days before his departure he took another test and it did at home who finally would get his inheritance.

23) That having been so difficult to take a position and settle its debts, purchased properties, signed contracts and taken out bank accounts with a document "false."

24) That Francisco García Jiménez in his "Life of Carlos Gardel" 1946, place it in 1904 singing in the political committee Laferrere Gregorio (being faithful to the chronic daily dedicated Carlos Criticism) and the work of the author "Carlos Gardel and his time" Thirty years later, that change 1904 by 1907, the .

25) That Other authors such as Zinelli and Macaggi and Simon Collier postscript Similarly the said episode.

26) That in October 1, 1933 to tell La Tribuna Popular: "I was born here in Tacuarembó, which, other hand, for granted, it is worthless to say."

27) That on October 4, 1933 tells the Fair: "I was born in Tacuarembó and I have 46 years."

28) That on October 25, 1933 tell The Telegraph (Paysandu), when asked what was his nationality: "An artist, a man of science, has no nationality. A singer either, is all and above all, their homeland is where you hear applause, but insists , Uruguayan-born Tacuarembó. "

29) That shortly before his death, in remarks to the magazine 'Masks', in Antioquia, Gardel has said:
' My heart is Argentine, but my soul is from Uruguay, because there born ' .

30) To comply celebrates 49 years in Paris in December 1933 and has deceased 44 years old in 1935.

Mario Azzarini Scoseria

Ninja Turtle Men's Footie Pajamas

Mr. Enrique Oscar Limonchi

As everyone can see, Mr. Limonchi has rejected my offer.
has decided that up (because I do not agree with his opinion.) not provide any evidence that supports your claim.
respect his reasons.
Let everyone draw their own conclusions. Martina Iñiguez



Posted in Mesa El Tango de la page: Http://www.todotango.com/spanish/main.html Oscar Enrique

Limonchi 10/26/2007 8:37:11 AM

Ms, rejected his invitation to debate in another place that was generated in this table.
just told you is one of the false theory that the burner tacuarenboense Gardel, and by publishing his complete poetry, I think you absolve myself from further comment.
Any person who owns or participates in a page or blog is subject to the control of which they enter, and long ago I read your comments and analyze his writings. And he wants to debate? for me what you said is the result of feverish imagination or that you enjoy and enjoy the freedoms offered by Argentina to from within the same undermine the image of his idol maximum ????,. Ms No, neither you nor I will change his position what I think of you, just sad that I have involved innesesariamente JP regosijo Aresi and you are in your responses and messages calling him of "disqualifying, speaker, cowardly, lacking reason, liar and intractable. I seem few who only mentioned attacks to defend a position that is right for me?" and wants me to start providing me with such a history debate ??.
And I'll say more, I read all his poetry, and I like ,,,,,,,,,, the last four lines, the rest is just the scaffolding of an invention Charrua. And if he lies because it supports the theory based on fabricated data ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE Rosarigasinos.

As this view would be incomprehensible without knowing what caused reproduce all exchanged views on the forum here said. Emphasize the statement made by Mr. Limonchi: Martina Iñiguez


10/23/2007 3:48:38 PM
ACADEMY OF LUNFARDO
PORTEÑA Chamuyando in slang, after all, is tango with parolas
our way ...
Otilia Da Veiga and Martina Iñiguez
present their poems and
tangos tangos and other serious
the invaluable assistance of the singers: MARISA
EGUÍA JUDITH MA-AIAN

Lucrecia Merico
SEBASTIAN
Guitar MAURA DANIEL Piano
PÉREZ: SEBASTIAN VILLALBA
Saturday October 27 1379

U.S. 18.30 hs. Free admission



Jaime Goldstein 10/23/2007 5:19:50 PM
suerte.Cuando I have not read it, I was certain that the program existed in the United States, but I realized my mistake I do not think you can reach Calle United States in my beloved Buenos Aires, this sábado.Un hug and the best of success. Jaime, the poet lame. Oscar Enrique

Limonchi 10/23/2007 5:34:42 PM

Jaime, my dear, you missed it this time around, not only is not here, but it seems to me that these people are from Uruguay, are datasheets that are ensuring Carlitos is Uruguayan, born in Tacuarembo, and the lady is a researcher at Gardel's life, eye! of only a stretch, but better ask him to JP Aresi you know the pedigree, a hug and you follow it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE Rosarigasinos. Eduardo Ribeiro


10/23/2007 7:07:08 PM
On Saturday I will be very early with you, dear Martina. Jaime Goldstein


10/23/2007 10:32:35 PM
Enrique.Ya was clarified what Gardel and everyone contento.Nació and spent several years in La Paternal (Nicasio Orono 2466, Disc 4), but me, when I listen ... I care about your pasado.Un embrace and, if we all shake hands, what the world would be cute and happy she would Dios.Jaime

José María Escudero

10/24/2007 4:45:50 AM
Dear Rosarigasino.-Martina Iñiguez slang is a renowned poet and this post just announced a performance with free admission, will surely be a very good nivel. "We can only express our good wishes or shut ..- I do not think it's time to make judgments on the line defending Gardel, as legitimate as anyone, whether or not reason. Ahhh, I think we have the animals pedigree. I send you a hug sincero.-Con this message Martina defend than as a person I have a humble attempt to defend your own bonhomía. "I think Meast fuerrça of tiesto. "Another hug. Eduardo Ribeiro Pepe


10/24/2007 6:37:14 AM

Totally agree with Mr. Escudero. In that barn there will come into the world the bitter Rosarigasinos? Oscar Enrique

Limonchi 10/24/2007 8:26:52 AM

Dear Pepe, in all these years never had or will have a quarrel with you, first because there were no grounds or assault and second because I always follow all positions participants. I am also able to demand respect for my ratings, as lawful as any, and my discens about this poet. I read a lot about it in the writings of Jose Pedro, who deserves the biggest part of my of several respects, and also participating in the same line, I can not change your mind even if the level exceeds that of Mrs. Alfonsina poetically speaking. Nor does the fact that the exhibition is free. The use of pedigree as a replacement "background" and to me, I clarified Pepe, for me, no good that you're an excellent guy with a home bar if you mistreat your wife and children, you understand?? and clarify this is just one example, lest I be accused of now invent family disagreements. If against all evidence lies, invents, are drawn useless things all the good that is done in another field, Sorry, it's my way of seeing things, a hug ,,,,,,,,,,, EL Rosarigasinos. Martina Iñiguez


10/24/2007 9:34:57 AM
regret that something published in an effort to share poems Tangos and Lunfardo has led to a discussion that has nothing to do with the first I tema.En thank Jaime, Eduardo and Pepe his kind opiniones.En Second, as Mr. Limonchi, who do not know, I judged by the words of a third party, Mr. José Pedro Aresi, very fond of always disqualify those who do not share your opinion, I want to clarify that different is not mentir.El say Mr. Aresi never personally wrote me asking for clarification about what I say, prefer public preaching is easy descalificante.Calumniar and unworthy, so I would appreciate miento.No tell me where I answer here because I do not think the right place. Martinalunfardo@hotmail.com can write and publish your comments and my response on the blog Carlos Gardel - Chamuyando TWO SHORES - COMMENTS http://carlosgardelorigen.blogspot.com/

José Pedro Aresi
10/24/2007 12: 43:28 PM
I was told that my name was about around here and went to read that he was meeting with a petit sucediendo.Me mess, which is serving as a breeding ground for a discussion nothing agradable.Somos all great and each responsible for the timing and impact of his statements, as well as possessing the power to do so., so Oscar Enrique understand that is within their rights to speak freely and the other not to share palabras.Deseo clarify that I am compelled to ask, or give explanations to anyone. In my contacts I choose them. Each is responsible for his statements and mine have been expressed in a controversial way yes, but never offensive, but at some time made it clear that those who dare to argue, he knows he will find a field of flowers. I will not move to this place strong conceptual differences I have with Ms. Iniguez and all well known, why here I end my participation in this "post" because I do not want to enter the field a discussion "conventiyera", which I'm not afecto.Un special salute to Oscar, Jaime and Enrique
Pepe.JPAresi
Oscar Limonchi
10/24/2007 2:49:31 PM
Dear Pepe, assuming clarified views and convictions that led us to this junction, and also stressing my appreciation and respect for Don Jose Pedro, is that I can not neglect the theory held by the Uruguayan side. Although I read that "different opinions is not lying "if it is the rig data, tune photos, inventing tales and stories and publicize and promote it from a blog. Just as Maradona is linked to the Falopa, Frank Sinatra with the Mafia and Fangio in motorsports, I can not stop Ms merge this with the Uruguayan fable. That we want you to say???, is what I think and believe, and as such, just expressing my thoughts, I leave my embrace ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE Rosarigasinos. PD : I do it involves JP. because it is who is fighting tooth and nail, (there are also others who make their contributions) with dates, information, testimony and documents about the true origin of the star, and every one of these things give ground to the arguments of Ms and the trupe that make the game. Martina Iñiguez

10/24/2007 4:12:00 PM
Mr. Limonchi: Although I do not know, I agree and understand that you hold the French Gardel, but you also said that "opinion different is not lying ", but yes what is the fix data, tune photos, inventing tales and stories and publicize and promote it from a blog, .. "I ask him to explain exactly when a publication is mine and, if so, what specific publication referred to and give me a chance to debate in open dialogue and not as usual Mr. Aresi, which once again has chosen the "recitation" followed by a cowardly escape as elegant as polemics rather than risk an open exchange of opiniones.La escape seems to be the only recourse of those who fear they will not have valid reasons to sustain their argumentos.No propose a discussion "conventiyera", but an exchange of opinions made altura.Le am talking very seriously Mr. Limonchi, I never attacked, nor even know, you came into this segment to disqualify me, is it too much to ask that I be given the opportunity to defend myself? José Pedro Aresi


10/24/2007 5:04:00 PM

Please Mrs. Iñiguez, does not offend as it did with Gardel's mother and many others. A I'm not going to get into your game. Follow his story and please, forget mí.Nunca will achieve what Martina Iñiguez

pretende.JPAresi
10/24/2007 5:14:52 PM
Mr. Aresi: You is lying. I've always been an advocate of women, could hardly have offended Berta Gardes. Already a poem I wrote when I began my research on the origin of Gardel in 2002 said, referring to the Thrush: Thrush Drum
Al
The otario from your old / by Malandra snorer,
the luxury of being "The Father" / of Dopey was lost.
chick And your dear mother, / of so submissive, lived private
your touch / and EnCana in their grief.
But all the tenderness / denied you two French
a hit / by the life you came.
As you can see, and then the tenderness of Berta opposed to the abandonment of their biological parents. Jaime Goldstein


10/24/2007 5:42:53 PM
Friends. Without the less intention of creating problems and conflicts and, in absolute certainty that I have no idea where Gardel was born, nor is my interest, I'm willing to pay a sum of money to NOT fRANCÉS.Mi loyalty to Charlie and great pleasure that gives me every time I hear it, does it protect you from that, to me, aberración.Dios, if you hear me, Gardel hacéque be of any nationality, least francesa.ES ONLY MY DESEO.Jai, e. Jairo Aguirre


10/25/2007 1:12:59 AM
I wanted to get into this kilombo, but I read the poem Martina. I think Martina, she made a terrible mistake.
"Mr. Aresi: You are lying. I've always been an advocate of women, poor might have offended Berta Gardes. Already a poem I wrote when I began my research on the origin of Gardel in 2002 said, referring to the Thrush: Thrush Drum Al
The otario from your old / by Malandra snorer,
the luxury of being "The Father" / Dopey's lost.
chick And your dear mother, / of so submissive, lived private
your touch / and EnCana in their grief.
But all the tenderness / denied you two French
a hit / by the life you came.
and then the tenderness of Berta opposed to the abandonment of their biological parents. "Analyze" the otario in your old for Malandra grunt "(who is snoring? paul Admiralty or plaster?)
"your dear mother chick? Bertha Gardes "was no chick??" born in 1865 and had a Charlie in 1890. Maria Clelia plaster instead if it was chick, right?
follow: "but the tenderness that you refused the two" never denied Bertha tenderly Carlos? "A French hit by the life you get" who is "the French beaten by life"? Bertha was never "beaten by life" while he lived Carlitos and then, either. Martina
I dedicate the poem to Maria Clali plaster. BERTHA not GARDES. that easy to lie, che. Sigismund
QUEVACHACHE.Jairo
Aguirre Martinez
10/25/2007 5:40:20 AM
I return to this forum, not withered face, but by the scuffle that has risen in it. And I do, more than anything, after reading the second message of the Sr ª Iñiguez.Me been fascinated by the strength and courage with which claims the right to express themselves according to their ideas. Everyone has the right and makes it gallantly, and no insult or ill come modos.No and some of his detractors, who perform with the contempt and insult. Surprisingly, it lends itself to dialogue with anyone who wants it face to face, hand by hand, as would the tango, to defend their ideas, given that I have never seen anyone else. With it shows his courage and gallantry, some exemplary and non corriente.Sr ª Iñiguez, congratulations for your status Women and vigor in defending their way of thinking. "A man who risks nothing by their ideas, their ideas are worthless, or worthless man," said Mr. Platon .==== Aguirre, I realize that you do not understand anything of the verses of Martina. Re-read with more detention. Oscar Enrique

10/25/2007 7:55:02 AM Limonchi

Don Sigismondo's see, it seems that I did not understand the prose of Ms. because I explained it, line by line what each sentence . From now grateful and I look ,,,,,,,,, THE Rosarigasinos. Fabian

latorre 10/25/2007 8:08:29 AM

ladies, ladies, gentlemen and why not, children: is it possible to go to court and fight to stop teasing us with Gardel, nationality or your favorite face powder? why are not all on Saturday to discuss not tease others? Martina Iñiguez


10/25/2007 8:43:34 AM
enclose the entire poem, I think no doubt as to what he says. In any case, I can suggest that those who do not understand what he says makes a reading comprehension course. Ricardo García Blaya himself, intelligent person, I proposed to publish it among the poems evocative of this page but in the resistance raised at that time, I understood that it was better not to be published there.
By Thrush's Drums
The otario from your old / by Malandra snorer,
the luxury of being "The Father" / the Dopey was lost.
chick And your dear mother, / of so submissive, lived private
your touch / and EnCana in their grief.
But all the tenderness / denied you two French
a hit / by the life you came.
And you, the innocent victim / fule of a society, dribbled
mufa and mud / did you become immortal.
We were faithful to your payment, /-that's where you were born, "
and you do to Buenos Aires / right and reverse. Always lurking
childhood / she could be and was not, your heart
invaded / Tacuarembó and Eden Valley.
But those reasons / that make a man of law
shrimp you did your Berta / French and I lied.
Time, which heals wounds / and the errors too, is now trying to give back
/ what you knew to be:
Criollo from the source, / Buenos Aires as the gotán,
over the Abasto Almagro, plus inmate that suburb.
But so high and all / and the sky more universal and eternal
your song / that eternity ... Thrush! Martina Iñiguez


10/25/2007 9:08:17 AM
Ja-Ja-Ja-James: I'm not stuttering, but who chose your name and knew that making others smile would be your philosophy of life.
Segis, dear friend, think that at the beginning of this beautiful friendship were opponents in the location of the birth of Dumb! Mr. Latorre
: Follow the discussion on the other side is just what I suggested to Mr. Limonchi.
so far has not accepted. Sigismund

Martinez
10/25/2007 10:11:17 AM
Sr.D. Fabián Latorre:
you do not know how much I laughed with your message. Receive my best thanks for that reason. It is one of the best I've read. His humor very scarce for these payments.
Regards. Sigismund
Martinez 10/25/2007 10:43:13 AM


Yes, sir ª Iñiguez, years ago I opponent yours, but remember that I always treated him with respect and consideration, because that's what he deserves. Further reading changed my mind, and now I think the truth is what you masterfully defiende.Su "Drum thrush", is a wonderful and felt sad poem that evokes the childhood of Gardel. D. rightly Ricardo valued it as it deserves, and wanted to publish it among the best who never lost his interest recuerdan.No in investigación.Con all my affection and respect. Fabian

10/25/2007 11:33:12 AM latorre

thanks mrs. martina, thanks sr. Sigismund, still just in his own try to stay calm. I think that the debate can become very interesting in measure is put aside comidillas.épocas annealing and wrongs had to be merciless in the struggling club forum tango. Please take care not acá.recuerden you are transferring from their different approaches and feelings, Gardelians to death and that other people, among whom I am, we are not at all interested in the subject. respect to be respected.

Stezano Jose Luis Serpa
10/25/2007 12:42:35 PM
Sra.Martina Iñiguez: I think Mr. Fabián Latorre is right and that the issue has moved to a place where it should be, so you write to U. Gardel page. Jose Luis Jose Luis Stezano

Serpa
10/25/2007 12:42:55 PM
Sra.Martina Iñiguez: I think Mr. Fabián Latorre is right and that the issue has moved to a place where it should be, so I'll write to you on the website of Gardel. Jose Luis Jose Luis Stezano

Serpa 10/25/2007 1:09:26 PM

Sr.Latorre: not that you have as much reason, it is that bad a Teclita pressed. Chau, and Gardel tango embrace for you Jose Luis Latorre


fabian 10/25/2007 4:22:44 PM
dear José Luis: I felt that something had failed. me too much reason to be an inconsistency. I have my limits. thanks, a hug. Martina Iñiguez

10/26/2007 7:04:24 AM

Reiterating the invitation for tomorrow, here is a poem by Otilia Da Veiga, to ease tensions
past Weaknesses
Every man has his Achilles heel,
although there are different types of heels,
vulnerable on many occasions it is necessary that it
know and assimilate.
In listing plan, I think there are thousands.
At the weakness of the virtuous actions
has it in the passions, the ability
the parsley.
The writer has the talent, goes
loyalty
married and I could go ... that is lungo
the story because it comes from bygone times.
And at this stage of evolution,
think that some are pure heel! Martina Iñiguez


10/26/2007 7:04:48 AM
Dear Fabio: It's my last speech in this segment. Respecting their right not to be bothered with the music I go to another parte.Reitero my invitation to Mr. Limonchi to continue the exchange at a site free of malicious anonymous:
CARLOS O URUGUAY GARDEL Honestly? Http://francesouruguayo.blogspot.com/
just need to get a gmail box and send it to me, authorize it to yourself to incorporate there all the examples you can find that I lie, invented tales and stories, fudging data fotos.También trick I explain the meaning line by line the verses of the poem "the thrush of Drums"
Mr. Serpa: I published your question and my answer on this blog, because I do not participate in forums "conventiyeros" unfortunately Gardel table is far below the level that has this page. There
Mr. Aresi practice what some "Lancers" of those well-dense, which when compared to a mine that is kind to them because they presume that it is giving them fits and if the mine refuses to openly believe that it is not hiding. In short, they are untreatable.
Segis: What please me Gardel to get in my way! Thank you, dear friend, for your continued support!

tanghoracio@yahoo.com.ar 10/26/2007 7:42:02 AM

Che, Ribero, is not this kid, "garufa?! Eduardo Ribeiro


10/26/2007 7:50:07 AM
I think not, "tegobi knee." Martina Iñiguez


10/26/2007 8:24:24 AM
Sorry, today announced a schedule change. The presentation starts at 18.30
Oscar Enrique
Limonchi 10/26/2007 8:37:11 AM

Ms, rejected his invitation to debate in another place that was generated around this table. Just told you is a of the false theory that the burner tacuarenboense Gardel, and by publishing his complete poetry, I think you absolve myself from further comment. Any person who owns or participates on a website or blog is subject to the control of which they enter, and long ago I read your comments and analyze his writings. And he wants to debate? for me what you said is the result of feverish imagination or that you enjoy and enjoy the freedoms offered by Argentina to sabotage from within himself the image of his idol maximum ????,. Ms No, neither you nor I will change his position I think of you, I only have sad that involves innesesariamente JP regosijo Aresi and you are in your responses and posts as being "dismissive, speaker, cowardly, lacking reason, liar and intractable. I seem few who abuse just mention to defend a position that is right for me? "and wants me to pay me to initiate discussion with this background?? . And I'll say more, I read all his poetry, and I like ,,,,,,,,,, the last four lines, the rest is just the scaffolding of an invention Charrua. And if it lies supports the theory based on fabricated data ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE Rosarigasinos.

Martina Iñiguez
10/26/2007 9:42:13 AM
Mr. Limonchi: Out of respect for other forum members, who do not deserve to continue with this discussion, I posted a comment on the blog: http:// francesouruguayo.blogspot.com /

As I left the discussion here, I just add below the last two comments in the post by Mr. Limonchi, having eliminated the other by infighting dealt only participants who do not make the argument because, as Mr. Limonchi, gave no exact data which contains I blamed it: rig data, tune photos, inventing tales and stories and publicize and promote it from a blog ,..", so I think that until they do, not me in that he speaks and I can not take care the fantasies that have been able to invent other Gardel, whatever position they have. Oscar Enrique

Limonchi 10/26/2007 10:02:50 AM

you talk about respect?? Ms but please! if you are already expressed in his writings that read it all, ask someone in the direction of the table to delete what you wrote, if repentant. As there is only my discens, no aggression, although some forgers tried to show solidarity with ud, attacks attributed not to see me. If any intemperate to him Adud manly virtues, courage, bravery, courage, gallantry, fortitude,,,, there is God! each bird without a nest there!. Look, a suggestion, go quiet, which is the exhibition this afternoon with another woman, and ugly as this would disturb his day. And do not go nowhere or site that you ask, All this was born in Tango and die here, as it should be ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE Rosarigasinos. Oscar Enrique
Limonchi

10/27/2007 2:34:08 PMLuis Alberto, very good your attempt to calm the waters, but the issue does not pass through the origin of the star, passing through the fable that is invented, not fable has no itching to speak of a pattern of staying sire, cohabiting with a girl and as a result of this relationship have a child then raised by a prostitute who becomes Berta Gardes. And this is keeping with lies and inventions, photos and stories concocted with a total lack of investigative rigor and again a dispute inevitably existing documents and testament of Carlitos. If you read the poem carefully, stopping at each verse to analyze it, it sure is a reaffirmation absurd of this theory on the other side, you'll see that in each of the words is the double intention of reaffirming this insidious lie. In no message put in doubt my capabilities Mrs author, not criticize their knowledge of their specialty, poetry, but it's there to enable the cuffs on our table is a long way. Blaya do not think has even attempted to put this poem on the page, as she said, but hey, if Mrs. believed more appropriate to say that no place is knowing that is controversial, however this time was pleased. A hug ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, THE Rosarigasinos.

Cake Sayings For Farewell

answer to the question of Jose Luis Serpa Stezano

reproduce the question I directed Mr. Serpa Forum Carlos Gardel Todo Tango page. As I do not participate in forums that allow anonymous intervention, I answer here.

Stezano Jose Luis Serpa
10/25/2007 1:04:37 PM
asked Ms. Martina Iñiguez
I ask a specific question as to what you've read is a researcher at the issue seriously Gardel.Primereo nationality I have some clarifications:
1) to enter Todotango never called me the topic you research.
2) I received the aggression they are capable of delivering three or four renowned French who frequent these parts for the double crime of being oriental and not accept their point of view, even knowing that they adhere to the thesis Uruguay.
3) I read the arguments on both sides.
4) I have heard testimonies of people who in all honesty is convinced of one or another position. I am also convinced that there are other people who want the eastern Gardel that is a great business and people envy that would cause the fact of the finding of the Uruguayan Gardel ciega.A this stage of events and without dismissing the importance of serious historical research, I believe that the completion of DNA to the remains of Gardel and his family intended, would be the strongest, if not the only litmus test that pay off the dispute. I imagine that you weigh surely it exciting for any serious researcher is his task. Still awaiting a response. The greeting atte. José LuisAraca I hope the fair, I hope ..


Dear José Luis:
This time I built myself a question here and I have no objection to continue to do so, just send them to the address on this blog, but if you want, create your own entries, you can simply send me a gmail address so you can authorize it.

I had very bad experiences in the forums where they allow anonymous participants, hence not involved in them. Unfortunately, the table
Forum Gardel Todo Tango has no the proper level of the rest of the page just for that reason.
Gardel is a good deal for many people and in any country. We do not make the locals less business as the French or the Uruguayans. But the desire of some French and blamed those who defend the eastern approach to have "settled in Tacuarembó obscure interests," is nothing but a "moonlighting" to disqualify the opponent indicates little capacity for argument.

With respect to DNA, I'm one of those who support the initiatives proposed by Dr. Carlos Perrotta.
not think I can "beat him fair" about it because I have no influence to get it performed.
All I know about what I mention in the blog: http://carlosgardelorigen.blogspot.com/2007_08_01_archive.html

As he was the first person who made that proposal and commissioned me personally to take this concern to Gardel and Uruguayan tango with whom I have contact, not many, a proposal was moved and unanimously approved by representatives of associations across the country Gardel and researchers think it must be for him to continue with that effort.
was appointed a lawyer based in Buenos Aires Uruguay and, as you, I'm hoping that these efforts forward. Dr. Perrotta was
to send the sample letter expected everyone and I'm hoping we sign. Of course, you must be an application without the "conclusions" before the test.

I do believe is that with or without DNA determine the time the truth about the origin of Gardel.
I have no desire for it is determined that Gardel was Uruguayan, I think it was, but I am absolutely open to accept otherwise if they find something that really pickup the singer with the child of Toulouse will not be a full of irregularities .

When Do Drivers Licenses Expire For Military

This blog was opened as a result of unintentional controversial discussion on the origin of Gardel, born in a place not authorized for that purpose, such as the Bureau of Tango Page "Todo Tango" http://www.todotango.com/spanish/main.html
I invite Mr. Henry Oscar Limonchi, who first introduced the subject in that place, to continue here the same, and all those who wish to exchange views on truth and fantasy published on the Creole Thrush: Carlos Gardel.
Mr. Limonchi asked him was explained "line by line what each phrase" the following poem:


As every reader has the right to make their own interpretation of what you read, I will explain what I I meant in this poem, written in 2002, music by guitarist Matthew Villalba, instrumentally recorded in 2003 and finally published in 2005.

course, all historical reconstruction, despite known evidence or proof is always conjectural.

Drum Al Thrush

The otario from your old / by Malandra snorer:
refers of course to Colonel Plaster, who served in Tacuarembo, 1882 absolute power.

afford to be "El Father" / the Dopey was lost:
I judge to be recognized as the father of Gardel is a desirable honor this poor gentleman lost for not having recognized

And your madrecita chick, / of so submissive, lived
empty your touch / and EnCana in their pain: Mary Lelia
was around 14 years to give birth to Gardel and had no option at that time the "ladies of good family "No decisions were made. The winches were created precisely to hide the "sins" of the young ladies of good family and provide for the care of their children. Manuela
the peons as Bentos, however, took care of their children and in this case, also a stranger.

But all the tenderness / denied you two French
a hit / by the life you came.
life in that time was not easy for a laundress who was also a single mother.

And you, the innocent victim / fule of a society, dribbled
mufa and mud / did you become immortal.
This needs no explanation.

I have been faithful to your payment, /-that's where you were born, "
and you do to Buenos Aires / right and reverse.
Love Gardel always had to Uruguay only explains why you always feel connected to where he was born, he and no one knew and felt that he owed his fame to Buenos Aires and the neighborhood in which it wrought.

children always lurking / He could be and was not, your heart
invaded / Tacuarembó and Eden Valley. Trips to
Tacuarembó and its relationship with the people of that place are explicable only if Gardel was a Tacuarembó.

But those reasons / that make a man of law
shrimp you did your Berta / French and I lied. Personally I think
Gardel French because I define said convinced him that this was the best way to assure his mother, not because his adoptive mother was less than the biological.
emphasize the belief that the will was genuine but not accurate and was expressed in these verses, before the Commissioner Torre prove its authenticity
rest needs no explanation.

Time, which heals wounds / and the errors too, is now trying to give back
/ what you knew to be:
Criollo from the source, / Buenos Aires as the gotán,
over the Abasto Almagro, plus reo the suburb.
But so high and all / and the sky more universal and eternal
your song / that eternity ... Thrush! Malandra

: scoundrel
Roncador, tyrannical
Encanada: in jail
Fule: false
Mufa: Make
misfortune gamba: dar apoyo

Algunas de las palabras lunfardas usadas tienen más de una acepción, puse aquí el significado que corresponde a este poema.

Creo conveniente aclarar también que Tambores es una villa que se encuentra en el limite departamental entre Paysandú y Tacuarembó en Uruguay.

Dice Nelson Bayardo

“Según acta nº 116 del Registro Civil de Salto, Uruguay, de fecha 8 de diciembre de 1903, doña Tomasa, madre de Irineo Leguisamo, inscribió el nacimiento de su hijo, sin padre conocido, ocurrido el día 20 de octubre de 1903 . Ahora bien, según acta nº 44 del departamento de Tacuarembó, doña Tomasa procede al RECONOCIMIENTO of Irenaeus as a child-as befits its status as a natural child, on 14 November 1935, in an apparently inexplicable, since it does no less than 32 years later.
However, the fact is explicable if one considers that three months earlier, on 13 August of that year, had opened the testament of Gardel, French invented a mother, a story that the lady knew well Leguisamo . The recording of the interview Avlis, (the first researcher in the history of Gardel in Tacuarembo) Dona Tomasa, clear record his surprise when questioned about whether Gardel was French, almost angrily replied: - "Gardel French? What will become Gardel French!. Gardel is Tacuarembó. They called the thrush and drums, still looking. "
After the appearance of the will and from fear that, as the case might" arise "his son Irineo another mother, not necessarily French," Dona Tomasa 32 years later, he took his precautions. "
poignant simplicity is a reaction of Dona Tomasa and says much more about it than they could say the words.
Carlos Gardel was seen by drums in his teens, a small town on the border of Paysandu, where he was born Leguisamo. Interestingly
remember that in an interview that The Nation did to Leguisamo on June 23, 1985, this, always jealously concealed Gardel Tacuarembó origin, had a slip and escaped enlightening that so long hidden:
"We kept ( Gardel) permanent rivalry Paysandu and Salto, the town she came from " immediately realized the jinx and added" though Carlos was French and Uruguayan citizenship card ( when he was well known that Argentina citizenship.) Paysandú
As was the original name Tacuarembó.